Saturday, October 06, 2007

About Changes That Are the Same

Aunt Bea just made a comment in the comments section here, which I'd like to bring to the top. As background, you should know that the new MCPS sex-ed curriculum includes an MCPS-produced video about how to use a condom, and the new video says, in different ways, "Remember to use a condom for oral, anal, and vaginal sex." This is good sound medical advice, the CDC says so, any doctor will tell you this is a good idea.

Well, the Citizens for a Responsible Curriculum pretend that "anal sex" means gay sex, and so this gives them an opportunity to be self-righteously offended. It doesn't: a government survey you can read HERE shows that about forty percent of adult Americans have had anal sex with someone of the opposite sex, and less than 4 percent of males have had anal sex with another male (as for women ... there's a plumbing issue there).

Anyway, the mention of anal sex throws the nuts into the fire, you might say. It just sets them off. They're sure that recommending a safer procedure to fifteen-year-olds is the same as telling children that they should try being gay. Exactly the same.

Remember, this video is new, but there are videos in the classrooms already. And the CRC has said repeatedly that they like the current sex-ed classes. The standard MCPS video for more than a decade is called Hope is not a Method.

Here's what Aunt Bea said:
As of their latest complaint, CRC fully supports the "status quo" curriculum, which includes the condom demonstration film, Hope Is Not A Method. That film, from the curriculum CRC fully supports, contains the following medically inaccurate statement:
Condoms not only prevent pregnancies but they are the only method that prevents the spread of sexually transmissible diseases like syphilis, gonorrhea, herpes, condyloma, and of course, HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. Now we’re going to be talking about other methods of birth control as well but remember, whether you’re having vaginal, oral, or anal sex, condoms should be used to protect both you and your partner.

Yet in their original 2007 appeal to the State Board of Education CRC stated:
4. Pursuant to COMAR Section 13A.04.18.03 (B) (3): “Erotic techniques of human intercourse may not be discussed. Discussion of anal and oral sex in the condom lessons and video clearly and patently violate this standard.

So tell us [...] were they in support of the statement that condoms should be used for vaginal, oral, or anal sex before they opposed it, or did they oppose it before they supported it?

The CRC is going to have to make up their minds on this one. It is perfectly inconsistent to praise the current curriculum while you criticize the new one for content that is exactly the same. If you're going to say that the new curriculum should be stopped because it teaches "erotic techniques of human intercourse" (what a joke), then you really should be insisting that the curriculum that's already out there should be stopped, too.

For most of us, an inconsistency in our beliefs would make us think further. Either we'd reconcile the inconsistency by changing a belief or we'd find a reason to say it's OK to teach this now, but it would be bad to teach it in the future. You or I would think up a rationale for contradicting ourselves, to justify it, or we'd change something. But let me tell you how the CRC will deal with the contradiction: they just won't mention it. They'll point to the new curriculum and say, loudly, "It says use a condom for anal sex," and their highly educated following will gasp indignantly, and that will be that. Nobody will ask the question, what does the curriculum say now? Even if you point the inconsistency out to them, they'll just look at you with those spiritually inspired glazed eyeballs. Because reason doesn't support them, God does. Why would it matter if their point doesn't make any sense? They have a Higher Calling, higher than reason, higher than logic, higher than facts.

As a historical note, when MCPS first presented a draft of the new video, the CRC actually liked it. It was perfect, from their point of view. There was no music, no personality, no scenery, the narrator's face was hidden, it was all men -- basically it was a video showing a guy how to put a condom on another guy. It was impersonal, uninteresting, uninformative. The citizens advisory committee -- yes, including me -- insisted on putting some information into it, like what to do if it breaks, what to do if you start using it inside out, how to dispose of it. If you use a condom correctly, it can prevent both pregnancy and disease quite reliably; if you use it wrong, you might as well not use one. So now the video shows how to use it correctly.

Our sex-ed controversy here in MoCo has not been a debate between two reasonable points of view. It could have been. It is entirely possible that reasonable people would want to go slow, want to protect children from information they're not ready for, and it is entirely possible that reasonable people would believe that students should be given accurate and complete knowledge about sexuality, including the risks and how to deal with them. I would love to see our community discuss these topics, liberals and conservatives pushing the standard in opposite directions until a satisfactory compromise is found. That's what should have happened here. But people like the CRC don't want to do that. Like three-year-olds, they want to stomp their feet and make everybody play by their rules. It's demeaning to the rest of us to have to deal with them, but you have to. Thanks to Aunt Bea for clarifying the point about the video in the comments.

16 Comments:

Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

I'm glad to help out.

Thank YOU and TTF for all you do to make sure both the facts and the voice of reason are heard.

October 06, 2007 1:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Well, the Citizens for a Responsible Curriculum pretend that "anal sex" means gay sex,... It doesn't: a government survey you can read HERE shows that about forty percent of adult Americans have had anal sex with someone of the opposite sex, and less than 4 percent of males have had anal sex with another male..."

I think this discussion is a perfect example of why it's so dangerous to make political appointees to something like the CAC. A TTF rep was appointed merely to counter the viewpoint of the CRC and PFOX reps required by the judiciary process. COMAR should be more specific about the membership and perhaps it should have been appointed by an objective third party.

The above argument is a misleading example of political rhetoric. The statistic states a technical truth and makes a dubious implication. 40% of heterosexuals have had anal sex and 4% of male homosexuals have. In other words, most gays have and less than half of heterosexuals have.

But which activity presents a public health problem? Well, very few promiscuous heterosexuals are doing it and virtually all homosexuals are. STDs are really mainly a problem among those who are promiscuous. It's rare for straights to get involved with someone and start off having anal sex but it's common among homosexuals. Most incidence of anal sex among heterosexuals is in long-term relaionships. With homosexuals it's common every step of the way. Anal sex is a homosexual health problem.

"Anyway, the mention of anal sex throws the nuts into the fire, you might say."

Actually, that's only you that says that. It's a valid point and I guess it seems like a fire to you because you can't dispute it.

"They're sure that recommending a safer procedure to fifteen-year-olds is the same as telling children that they should try being gay."

No, the point is that the kids aree mislead about the extent of the danger of the activity.

"Remember, this video is new, but there are videos in the classrooms already. And the CRC has said repeatedly that they like the current sex-ed classes. The standard MCPS video for more than a decade is called Hope is not a Method.....

The CRC is going to have to make up their minds on this one. It is perfectly inconsistent to praise the current curriculum while you criticize the new one for content that is exactly the same. If you're going to say that the new curriculum should be stopped because it teaches "erotic techniques of human intercourse" (what a joke), then you really should be insisting that the curriculum that's already out there should be stopped, too."

Not really, Jim. For one simple reason: the old video hasn't been used for years. I spoke to a sex ed teacher at a MCPS school a few months before the Fishback revisions were approved who said that MCPS was a backward county because they didn't have such a video. The teachers didn't even know about it, much less use it! CRC said they approved the curriculum that is actually being taught.

"As a historical note, when MCPS first presented a draft of the new video, the CRC actually liked it."

Actually, they had made a deal with the chairman of the CAC to support it as long as there weren't any changes. Along comes Jim:

"It was perfect, from their point of view. There was no music, no personality, no scenery, the narrator's face was hidden, it was all men -- basically it was a video showing a guy how to put a condom on another guy. It was impersonal, uninteresting, uninformative. The citizens advisory committee -- yes, including me -- insisted on putting some information into it, like what to do if it breaks, what to do if you start using it inside out, how to dispose of it. If you use a condom correctly, it can prevent both pregnancy and disease quite reliably; if you use it wrong, you might as well not use one. So now the video shows how to use it correctly."

Talk about inconsistency. First you're griping about how the video is not enticing enough with its music, scenery and personality then you're saying the information is the problem.

"Our sex-ed controversy here in MoCo has not been a debate between two reasonable points of view. It could have been. It is entirely possible that reasonable people would want to go slow, want to protect children from information they're not ready for,and it is entirely possible that reasonable people would believe that students should be given accurate and complete knowledge about sexuality, including the risks and how to deal with them."

Like that anal sex, even with a condom, is quite dangerous in promiscuous, casual relationships?

"I would love to see our community discuss these topics, liberals and conservatives pushing the standard in opposite directions until a satisfactory compromise is found."

No compromise is needed. Truth is. Compromised truth is not truth.

"That's what should have happened here. But people like the CRC don't want to do that. Like three-year-olds, they want to stomp their feet and make everybody play by their rules."

Aren't you telling us what you think the rules should be? It sure seems like you are.

October 07, 2007 7:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually, they had made a deal with the chairman of the CAC to support it as long as there weren't any changes.

So the suers tried circumvent their public community role to work alone with Carol Plotsky, the CAC Chair, behind closed doors? Sounds just like something they'd try to do -- the ends justify the means to them.

Thanks for pointing out this illegal backroom maneuver by the suers. There should be an investigation and the results should be made public.

October 08, 2007 7:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"So the suers tried circumvent their public community role to work alone with Carol Plotsky, the CAC Chair, behind closed doors?"

They were representing the community's interest. "Behind closed doors" is a stretch. I read about it in the media.

"Sounds just like something they'd try to do -- the ends justify the means to them."

Oh yeah, it would have to be some ends to justify those dastardly means.

That's the way effective committee work. People prepare for the public meetings.

"Thanks for pointing out this illegal backroom maneuver by the suers. There should be an investigation and the results should be made public."

First, I think you'd have to figure what law you imagine was broken. Then, you'll have to investigate every committee ever set up.

AND MAKE THE RESULTS PUBLIC!!!

ARRGGHHHH!

October 08, 2007 8:26 AM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

It's rare for straights to get involved with someone and start off having anal sex but it's common among homosexuals. Most incidence of anal sex among heterosexuals is in long-term relaionships.

Really? Can you show us some data backing up your claims? I doubt it. Reminder: 60 Minutes publicized a report in 2005 about research on 20,000 teens by Bearman and Bruckner that refutes your claims.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/20/60minutes/main696975.shtml

"Adolescents who take virginity pledges – who remain virgins, that is, who don’t have vaginal sex, who technically remain virgins, are much more likely to have oral and anal sex," says Bearman.

"They're not thinking they’re having sex?" asks Bradley.

"Well, if they are trying to preserve their virginity, their technical virginity by having oral or anal sex, then obviously they’re defining these behaviors as not sex," says Bearman.

"So they’re probably less likely to get tested for a sexually transmitted disease?" asks Bradley.

"They're much less likely to get tested for a sexually transmitted disease. They’ve taken a public pledge to remain a virgin until marriage. The sex that they have is much more likely to be hidden," says Bearman. "It’s likely to be hidden from their parents. It’s likely to be hidden from their peers. And if they live in a small community, it’s quite likely to be hidden from their doctor."


This research found that many teens who seek to remain "virgins" until marriage engage in anal and oral sex instead. It is rare for first teen romances to become "long-term relationships." After too many years of the Bush Administration's push for abstinence-only education programs like virginity pledge programs, which conveniently enriched GOP campaign contributors along the way, a great number of American teens are suffering these ill effects.

Sham Sham
Shame Shame

October 08, 2007 8:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon-B, here's a link to analysis of the Bearman study by the Heritage Foundation:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Abstinence/whitepaper06142005-2.cfm

One item you may note is that regardless of who is more likely to have anal sex (and the Bearman study misleads), the numbers are very small. Something like 1 in a thousand, compared to 999 in a thousand among gays.

Anal sex is a gay health issue.

October 08, 2007 9:52 AM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

I read the spin from the carefully selected data that says what Heritage wanted it to say. Heritage **chose** to completely ignore the data from the actual medical testing that was done because it didn't fit the story they want to tell. You and they should both stick to the facts, all of them.

October 08, 2007 11:09 AM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

Jim already posted a full blog about this Heritage Foundation deception here.

October 08, 2007 11:14 AM  
Blogger JimK said...

Thank you, Aunt Bea, I was just about to post that link, too. The Heritage Foundation's report was scandalous. They ignored laboratory data and focused on whether people said they had been treated for STDs, among other things. That report is pure politics.

JimK

October 08, 2007 11:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, I was only was discussing the part of the report that deals with the incidence of anal sex. The 60 Minutes casually drops the phrase "oral and anal sex" as if the incidence level was the same.

Tell us, in your own words, anon-B, how many of the 20,000 cases reported engaging in anal sex.

October 08, 2007 11:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"That report is pure politics."

All those years of listening to bluegrass have turned you into a hoot, Jim.

October 08, 2007 11:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh, also, anon-B, what is the source of the 20,000?

October 08, 2007 11:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Tell us, in your own words, anon-B, how many of the 20,000 cases reported engaging in anal sex."

You seem to be having some trouble, anon-B.

Here's a hint: Jim calculated the number in the post you referenced. In fact, he did it twice and came up with different numbers.

He probably did something wrong both times but its a good starting point for discussion.

October 08, 2007 1:37 PM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

I had no trouble Anon (thanks so much for your concern), just no time.

If there's a point you want to make about the "source" of the data and the numbers "engaging" in various behaviors, what are you waiting for? The blog Jim wrote about the Heritage spin includes a link to the Bearman and Bruckner study. You're a big boy. Go ahead and make it.

October 09, 2007 7:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I already made it. Only ask you to restate it because you seem to claim that Heritage has distorted the Bearman analysis. It was your chance to tell us what Bearman said about the incidence of anal sex among heterosexuals since you were implying that Heritage distorted it.

Anal sex is very rare among heterosexuals in new relationships when STDs present the greatest risk, as I said. This is supported by the data examined by Bearman, which he didn't generate himself.

Jim's post, while I'm not agreeing with it, concerned a different aspect of the study.

Anal sex, despite TTF wordplay and statistic twisting, is a gay health issue.

Anal sex

October 09, 2007 7:46 AM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

Bearman and Bruckner reported:

Here we consider those who have oral or anal sex without
vaginal sex. Amongst those who have only oral sex and/or
anal sex, pledgers are over-represented. Overall, about 3%
of respondents reported oral sex with one or more partners
but no vaginal sex. Although just over 2% of nonpledgers
fall into this group, 13% of consistent pledgers and 5% of
inconsistent pledgers do (p  .000). Similarly, 0.7% of
nonpledgers report anal but no vaginal sex, compared with
1.2% for pledgers. Although too few females report anal but
no vaginal sex, for males we find a significant difference
between pledgers and nonpledgers (p  .021). Specifically,
slightly more than 1% of male nonpledgers report anal sex
but no vaginal sex, compared with almost 3% for inconsistent
pledgers and 4% for consistent pledgers.


I didn't say Heritage distorted the data, you did. I said "Heritage **chose** to completely ignore the data from the actual medical testing that was done because it didn't fit the story they want to tell."

And they did, just as Jim reported back in June 2005, "Brückner and Bearman analyzed real data from real urine tests. People peed in the cup and it went to a lab. It didn't matter what the respondent said, the laboratory measured whether there were signs of infection in the urine. The Heritage Foundation guys relied only on what the respondent said."

Of course the subjective self-report data from self-proclaimed abstainers who have signed a pledge but are sexually active anyway is going to be suspect. That's why scientists who seek to understand what is actually going on with teens used the objective data from urine samples and why the spinners who want to persuade people to believe as they do didn't.

October 09, 2007 11:08 AM  

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