Tuesday, October 23, 2007

Can Congress Abstain from Abstinence?

Somebody sent me this article from Congressional Quarterly, which keeps some parts online and out in the open and some where you have to pay for them. I don't find it on their web site, so I can't give you a link. That publication follows what's going on in Congress; I get the rss feed for it, but this story wasn't included in that. It gets pretty technical, as you'll see, but it can be fascinating as well, watching them fight it out day to day on the Hill. The date on this is October 19th.
Heated Debate Ahead for Spending Bill Proposal Addressing Sex Education
By Alex Wayne, CQ Staff

Abstinence-only sex education, already taking a cut in the Senate version of the fiscal 2008 Labor-HHS-Education spending bill, could suffer a more serious setback Monday.

Senators are expected to debate a floor amendment by Frank R. Lautenberg, D-N.J., that would prohibit federally funded abstinence courses from using "medically inaccurate" information in their curricula. Conservative critics of the bill say the proposal is a cleverly written means of ending abstinence-only education, something many Democrats oppose.

Oh, man, this is right out of the CRC's playbook. Those clever Democrats are cheating -- they're going to say that only accurate information can be taught, which means the classes will have a liberal bias.
Lautenberg's amendment is one of several controversial social issues the Senate has debated as it considers the bill to fund the departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education. Because of the agencies it covers, the bill has been a longtime venue for social policy debate.

The Senate has already dealt with two abortion amendments. One, affirming a law that prevents Medicaid from funding abortions, was adopted; the other, to ban Planned Parenthood from tapping federal family planning grants, was defeated.

Other pending amendments include measures by John Ensign, R-Nev., intended to prevent illegal immigrants from collecting Social Security benefits, and by Tom Coburn, R-Okla., that would use money committed to earmarks in the bill to instead pay for health insurance for children.

Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said Oct. 19 he had reached agreement with Republicans to complete the legislation by midday Tuesday. President Bush has threatened to veto it.

The bill (HR 3043, S 1710) would provide $606 billion for the departments it covers, plus some independent agencies such as the Social Security Administration. Of the total, $149.9 billion is discretionary spending. The rest is mostly for entitlements: Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and unemployment insurance.

The Senate version's discretionary spending represents a $5.4 billion increase over what was enacted in fiscal 2007 and is $9.6 billion more than Bush requested. It contains $1.9 billion less than the House-passed version.

Lautenberg is among many Democrats who think the government should fund not only abstinence education but also "comprehensive" sex education curricula, which include information about contraception and safe sex.

"Growing up isn't easy, and our kids find themselves in tough situations every day. They need all the information to make smart choices, and 'abstinence-only' programs are not enough," Lautenberg said in a March statement, when he and other Democrats introduced legislation that would fund "comprehensive" sex education.

His proposal would prohibit funding for any abstinence education programs that use "medically inaccurate" information. He defines that as data "unsupported or contradicted by peer-reviewed research by leading medical, psychological, and public health publications, organizations and agencies."

Critics say the broad definition would eliminate money for all abstinence-only courses. Even if a program used information found accurate by one peer-reviewed study, it would not be eligible for funding under the amendment if any other study questioned the curricula, said Robert Rector, a senior research fellow at the conservative Heritage Foundation.

"It clearly would end abstinence education almost immediately," Rector said. "The definition . . . doesn't cover medical information; it covers everything. If anything that is said in an abstinence text is disagreed with by anything said anywhere else, you can't use it. And that would in effect eliminate virtually every sentence, and it's intended to do that."

A Lautenberg aide said the amendment would not end funding for abstinence programs.

"There are likely some that would be medically accurate, and we expect most to continue to receive funding," the aide said. "This would require all programs to be medically accurate before receiving funding."

I think the key here is the little phrase "peer-reviewed." Groups like the Heritage Foundation conduct "studies," whose results always support the socially conservative view. They publish those studies on their web site and issue press releases, and some reporters can't tell the difference between those "studies" and real scientific research that has undergone the scrutiny of experts in the field and been published in real peer-reviewed journals. These guys in Congress are simply saying that if the federal government is going to pay for classes, they should be teaching knowledge that has been found through peer-reviewed, scientific research. The Heritage Foundation kind of propagandists researchers are foaming at the mouth -- this will not be good for their business.

This is wonderful, just great. The Republicans are outraged, outraged I tell you, because those slimy Democrats insist that the stuff you teach kids in school, at least on the federal dollar, should be accurate. They know their classes can never qualify.

It was generous of the Democratic guy to say that it might at least be possible to have an abstinence-only class that told the truth. Kind of like, "in theory."

I don't know, am I the only one who sees the humor in this?

37 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The Republicans are outraged, outraged I tell you, because those slimy Democrats insist that the stuff you teach kids in school, at least on the federal dollar, should be accurate."

The problem is, in the field of sexual studies, there is a plague of studies that have been peer-reviewed but cannot be replicated. Congress should investigate this phenomena before falling into the trap of using peer-review a seal of approval. Peer review doesn't certify accuracy. The writer of this post understands this and is trying to deceive.

Even in what peer review does accomplish, general logic and methodology review, it isn't iron-clad because there are too many journals and too many editors with mixed motives.

Congress needs to find something better than the currently tainted system of peer review.

October 23, 2007 8:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What about the statistics from GLSEN that at taught to the students?

anonymous5

October 23, 2007 10:08 AM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

The problem is, in the field of sexual studies, there is a plague of studies that have been peer-reviewed but cannot be replicated.

Yeah, like the Spitzer study.

Even in what peer review does accomplish, general logic and methodology review, it isn't iron-clad because there are too many journals and too many editors with mixed motives.

Journalists and editors don't peer review scientific papers; scientists who work in the field or related fields do.

We went through this last month:

Aunt Bea said...

Peer review is used by virtually every government agency that funds grants as required by the Executive Office of the President, Office of Management and Budget, which says

Peer review is an important procedure used by the scientific community to ensure that the quality of published information. Peer review can increase the quality and credibility of the scientific information generated across the federal government. This Bulletin is one aspect of a larger OMB effort to improve the quality of the scientific information upon which policy decisions are based.

http://www.cio.noaa.gov/itmanagement/OMB_Peer_Review_Bulletin_m05-03.pdf

These government granting agencies include, but are not limited to the National Institutes of Health, the Centers for Disease Control, the Department of Education, the Department of Energy, Health and Human Services, the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality...I could keep going but I think you get the point.

http://grants.nih.gov/grants/peer_review_process.htm

http://0-www.cdc.gov.mill1.sjlibrary.org/od/science/PHResearch/peerreview.htm

http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/oig/aireports/i13f0017.pdf

http://www.science.doe.gov/grants/merit.html

http://aspe.hhs.gov/infoquality/peer.shtml

http://www.ahrq.gov/fund/appover.htm

University and other private organizations also fund grants for research and utilize the peer review process to determine which proposals show promise and rigor.

Virtually all funded researchers submit to peer review in the interest of strengthening their work, making it more valid and meaningful. You'd think these NARTH "researchers" would be confident enough in their procedures, experimental designs, and other details to seek the validation of other researchers in the field. But they don't.

Maybe they shun peer review because they feel they're on a mission for God so they answer to a higher authority. Hebrew National says the same thing about their hotdogs ("We answer to a higher authority"), but they allow inspectors to review their process in order to assure the public they do it right.

September 16, 2007 8:28 AM

October 23, 2007 10:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Yeah, like the Spitzer study."

Actually, like every study in the field. Researchers at Wheaton College recently came up with results similar to Spitzer. Spitzer was, before his study, revered by the gay community, having been key to removing the DSM rating by the APA.

"Journalists and editors don't peer review scientific papers; scientists who work in the field or related fields do."

Scientific journals are filled with papers from scientists. Editors choose the peer reviewers. To vouch for the ubiquitous integrity of the thousands of editors is ridiculous.

The government funding should be dependent on replication of results. Peer review does not attest to the accuracy of data, IN ANY WAY. Government funding based solely on peer review is open to fraudulent use of taxpayer money,

October 23, 2007 12:57 PM  
Anonymous Merle said...

The Jones and Yarhouse study you refer to was not peer reviewed. Why didn't they go through regular channels? Because they knew the real experts in the field would see the problems in it.

You might not like peer review, Anon, but you seem to appreciate the benefits of it, the technology for instance. Science works, and it works by peer review.

Merle

October 23, 2007 1:32 PM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

Government funding based solely on peer review is open to fraudulent use of taxpayer money

And how do you feel about no-bid contracts? Are they open to "fraudulent use of taxpayer money?" This adminstration never saw a no-bid contract it didn't like. Is it any wonder? They get to give taxpayer money away to their cronies and contributors and then claim "national security" when somebody asks about the money. Woohoo! Anybody wonder where the surplus went??

And hey, it's even better when you can get the defense contractors themselves, like Commonwealth Research Institute, to pay federal employees like Charles D. Riechers, until you can get them their clearance. After all, they've got all those taxpayer dollars in their overstuffed pockets...

October 23, 2007 2:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The Jones and Yarhouse study you refer to was not peer reviewed."

Yes, but it was similar to the Spitzer study and replicated similar results. This is vastly more important.

To place so much importance on peer review indicates you don't understand it, Merle. The methodology of the paper has been published and the whole world of scientists can freely criticize it.

That doesn't mean the data is accurate but neither does peer review.

And, again, an abnormal number of studies in sexuality have been peer-reviewed but have not been replicable by other scientists.

"Why didn't they go through regular channels? Because they knew the real experts in the field would see the problems in it."

The "real experts" are free to do so.

"You might not like peer review, Anon, but you seem to appreciate the benefits of it, the technology for instance."

I'm fine with it and think it's great but it's been abused and it's value has been overstated by those with a political agenda.

"Science works, and it works by peer review."

Watson and Crick's paper in the 50's on the structure of DNA was not peer-reviewed. Seems to have worked out fine. There are other examples.

October 23, 2007 2:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"And how do you feel about no-bid contracts?"

It appears that anon-B's gracious way of conceding defeat is to change the subject.

October 23, 2007 2:53 PM  
Blogger JimK said...

Let me spell this out for you, Anon. There is no gold standard for determining the truth of a new proposition. There is empirical evidence, and there is logical deduction, and neither of those are foolproof in the face of noisy data, which is always the case.

This is a very important concept, which you will never understand.

The best approximation of the truth that we have is the judgment of knowledgeable people.

And so science creeps forward, from one theory to the next, by capitalizing on human knowledge, proposing hypotheses, testing them, and letting knowledgeable people judge if it passes the test, using empirical methods and deduction.

If truth came directly from the mind of a God who would share it with mortals, all you'd have to do is pray and you would learn the truth. Scientists don't do that: skepticism is the basis of scientific thinking.

You have also demonstrated that you don't know what peer review is.

JimK

October 23, 2007 3:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Let me spell this out for you, Anon."

Thanks for spelling out truth for all of us, Jim. Maybe you can start your own religion and sit up on a mountain waiting for the faithful to seek answers from you for all of life's big questions. I think L Ron Hubbard started out this way. Maybe you should talk to Tom Cruise!

"There is empirical evidence, and there is logical deduction, and neither of those are foolproof in the face of noisy data, which is always the case."

Well, that noisy data is empirical evidence. It's exactly what peer review does not judge. One could think of some system that audits and tests scientific data but one doesn't exist now and a layman may mistakenly conclude from your rambles that peer reviews does certify data. It doesn't.

Peer review does look at the logic of papers but it's evaluation is a matter of educated opinion. An editor who knows the biases of certain scientists could select those whose opinion he can easily forejudge. Remember that's how MCPS formed its CAC.

"This is a very important concept, which you will never understand."

Oh, I think anyone who tries to follow the twisting trail of the latest finding on everything from what food is healthy to what year man first appeared on the Earth knows this well.

"The best approximation of the truth that we have is the judgment of knowledgeable people."

Actually, no. As we tried to explain to you many times, truth is known by us in three ways: empirical evidence, logical deduction and revelation. You're gaining on your insights but you still don't understand that all three of these legs are necessary for the table of truth to stand. Peer review deals with one- and not infallibly.

"And so science creeps forward, from one theory to the next, by capitalizing on human knowledge, proposing hypotheses, testing them, and letting knowledgeable people judge if it passes the test, using empirical methods and deduction."

Again, peer review doesn't attest to the validity of the empirical evidence. You're trying to deceive.

"If truth came directly from the mind of a God who would share it with mortals, all you'd have to do is pray and you would learn the truth."

Can't speak for other religions but that's not how Christianity works. The three legged model of empiricism, logic and revelation is consistent with Christian theology.

"Scientists don't do that: skepticism is the basis of scientific thinking."

Actually, much great science has begun as a pursuit of God, trying to know him by studying his revelation in creation.

"You have also demonstrated that you don't know what peer review is."

You've demonstrated that you don't want laymen to understand it. We know why. We're not fooled.

October 23, 2007 4:14 PM  
Anonymous Emproph said...

Anonymouse said...
"Researchers at Wheaton College recently came up with results similar to Spitzer...and
replicated similar results."

__
11 out of 98 self-loathing (mostly due to heterosupremacist relious doctrine) gays, according to themselves, "turned into" heterosexuals like this:

Success: Conversion. The subject reports complete (or nearly complete) success or resolution of homosexual orientation issues and substantial conversion to heterosexual attraction. Homosexual attraction is either missing or present only incidentally and in a way that does not seem to bring about distress or undue “temptation.” The person either has a successful heterosexual sex life (whether in marriage or otherwise), or reports he or she is dating and experiencing satisfactory heterosexual attraction even though not acting out sexually due to moral constraints. The subject appears to have firm confidence in the stability of change and of continuing progress. Prototype: “I’m healed; rarely experience homosexual desire to significant proportions, and enjoy a good sex life with my spouse (or am dating and am very attracted to my love interest).”

Which of course 100% proves your contention that ALL...

“Gay persons are just confused heterosexuals.”

And that 100% of ALL...

”Same-gender attraction is a chosen “lifestyle.”

Again, just admit it. This has nothing to do with science, OR ACCURACY. It’s all about your sacred love of hating gays.

You’d reject Jesus Christ Himself if he shared proof with you that same gender relationships were not sinful.

October 23, 2007 4:27 PM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

"And how do you feel about no-bid contracts?"

It appears that anon-B's gracious way of conceding defeat is to change the subject.


Excuse me? Who changed the subject to "fraudulent use of taxpayer money?"

Answer: Anon at October 23, 2007 12:57 PM

Giving away federal tax dollars to cronies and campaign contributors via no-bid contracts and then hiding behind claims of "national security" is the most egrecious example of fraudulent use of [US] taxpayer money IMHO. This administration has repeatedly spent billions of dollars of our taxpayer money precisely that way, all the while working like mad to undermine genuine scientific inquiry.

Enjoy it while it lasts. The end is as near, Jan '09.

October 23, 2007 4:53 PM  
Anonymous David S. Fishback said...

Jim writes:

"This is wonderful, just great. The Republicans are outraged, outraged I tell you, because those slimy Democrats insist that the stuff you teach kids in school, at least on the federal dollar, should be accurate. They know their classes can never qualify.

"It was generous of the Democratic guy to say that it might at least be possible to have an abstinence-only class that told the truth. Kind of like, "in theory."

"I don't know, am I the only one who sees the humor in this?"

I, too, see a bizarre humor in the Republican reaction. I find it more sad than humorous that so many proponents of abstinence-only are so insecure that they are afraid to present only accurate information.

But I do not find it purely theoretical that there could be an abstinence-only curriculum that did not contain lies and misrepresentations. Indeed, if you took the MCPS units and simply removed all discussion of condoms and other contraception, it would be an accurate abstinence-only curriculum.

The current research reveals that abstinence-only programs do not get any better results (and often worse results) in terms of teen pregnancy or STIs than other programs. What would the results be if we only compared medically accurate abstinence-only programs to other programs? We do not know -- possibly because there are not enough medically accurate abstinence-only programs.

Let's say a school system proposed an abstinence-only curriculum that said that the best, and only 100% medically safe approach, is to refrain from sexual intercourse until you have met and committed to your life partner. (I say life partner here to take the "marriage" issue -- which is used, consciously or by omission, to tell gay people to be celebate or "change" -- out of the equation). But then the school system proposed to make it clear that it believes that abstinence from sexual intercourse is so important an approach, and that anything more will be an inferential stamp of community approval on pre-commitment sex, that it will not provide any information about how to lessen the possibility of pregnancy or STIs for those who do not wait, even though most students eventually will need that information.

In such a circumstance, the community could have a reasoned discussion about values and likely outcomes (as opposed to theology) and whether a community's insistence on the value of abstinence until commitment is more likely to yield responsible conduct and happiness than an approach which states the community's preference, but provides information nearly all students will eventually need.

At this point, I likely would come out in favor of more, rather than less information. I think that if we respect teenagers' judgment, we need not be afraid of providing more accurate information. But I would have an open mind in the discussion.

Still,until the abstinence-only crowd gains more confidence in the merit of their ideas and more confidence in the good judgment of the children they are raising, I suspect that very few communities will have that kind of discussion.

October 23, 2007 5:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The Jones and Yarhouse study you refer to was not peer reviewed. Why didn't they go through regular channels? Because they knew the real experts in the field would see the problems in it."

They didn't go through peer review because their findings were published as a book rather than in a journal. Most scientists don't "submit" to peer review as some sort of scientific principle. The editors of journals require it and the scientists are generally not able to get something published without going to a journal.

Jones and Yarmouth were able to get a publisher for their book on the topic. Any scientist who could do the same would.

October 23, 2007 5:28 PM  
Anonymous Merle said...

Scientific books are strictly peer-reviewed, and are based on peer-reviewed research. This was original work published by a Christian publisher with only editorial review.

Merle

October 23, 2007 5:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, one thing is for sure.

The "comprehensive approach" ISN'T working.


http://www.calcatholic.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?id=66b0b863-223e-4357-b06f-e66364e13446

October 23, 2007 7:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Andrea- not anon
I doubt any serious scientist would want to publish a non-fiction book by a publisher who didn't require peer review. Didn't Our "friend" from Grove City College set up some sort of press like that?

October 23, 2007 7:37 PM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

The "comprehensive approach" ISN'T working.

The comprehensive approach most certainly is working. Europe's teen pregnancy rates are much lower than ours.

This graph says it all:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1079321&rendertype=figure&id=fig1

Even Fox News knows it:

the U.S. has the highest rate of teen pregnancy in the developed world at 93 per 1000 — at least twice that of Canada, England, France, and Sweden, and 10 times that of the Netherlands. “As a direct result, abortion rates are twice or three times as high as European countries,” said Sharon L. Camp, president of the Guttmacher Institute, a non-partisan research organization. Moreover, one of every two young Americans will get a sexually transmitted disease by age 25, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

So what’s the bottom line? Abstinence-only education is short-sighted, dangerous, and against the will of both health professionals and parents. In a country where 93 percent of men and 79 percent of women report having sexual intercourse prior to marriage, a federal policy that seeks to prevent its citizenry from obtaining the information it needs to protect itself is unconscionable. As Isabel Sawhill wrote for Brookings Institution, “Family and community values, not a federal mandate, should prevail, especially in an area as sensitive as this one.”


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,211341,00.html

Here in the US, the drop in US teen pregnancy rates, while partially due to the abstinence message, is mostly due to the contraception message.

a 2006 analysis by Columbia University and Guttmacher Institute researchers found that the majority (86%) of the decline in teen pregnancy between 1995 and 2002 was due to dramatic improvements in contraceptive use, including more teens using any contraceptive method at all, more teens using certain highly effective methods and more teens using multiple methods (e.g., the pill and the condom). Approximately 14% of the decline was due to more young people delaying sexual intercourse.

www.guttmacher.org/presentations/sex_ed.pdf

October 23, 2007 7:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Guttmacher Institute, a non-partisan research organization"

HAHAHA!!!

HOHOHO!!!

HEEHEEHEE!

HAW!

The GI is a classic example of an organization which conducts studies in which they have already decided what answer they want.

They usually get the answer they want.

Who's this Guttmacher that the Institute is named after?

Why he's a former head of Planned Parenthood.

Enough said.

October 23, 2007 8:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I doubt any serious scientist would want to publish a non-fiction book by a publisher who didn't require peer review."

Oh, please.

Give us a break.

October 23, 2007 8:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Enjoy it while it lasts. The end is as near, Jan '09."

Have I introduced you to the next President of the United States, Mike Huckabee?

October 23, 2007 8:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"But I do not find it purely theoretical that there could be an abstinence-only curriculum that did not contain lies and misrepresentations. Indeed, if you took the MCPS units and simply removed all discussion of condoms and other contraception, it would be an accurate abstinence-only curriculum."

So, it really shouldn't be a problem to offer one, should it? MCPS obviously has an agenda.

"The current research reveals that abstinence-only programs do not get any better results"

If there is no difference in results, why favor a morally ambivalent position?

October 23, 2007 8:49 PM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

MCPS obviously has an agenda.

Yes, that "agenda" is to encourage abstinence. That "agenda" is also to protect all teens from unplanned pregnancy and STDs, even those who are sexually active.

"The current research reveals that abstinence-only programs do not get any better results"

If there is no difference in results, why favor a morally ambivalent position?


There's a difference all right, a couple of them in fact. I see you only complained about the GI source. Here's more information from Fox News, a source you apparently trust:

But the big picture contains several caveats. Two prominent researchers of adolescent sexuality, Peter Bearman of Columbia and Hannah Brueckner of Yale found that while teenagers who took virginity pledges as part of abstinence-only programs were more likely to delay sexual activity (by about 18 months), they were just as likely to contract sexually transmitted diseases — and tended not to use contraceptives once they did become sexually active. Moreover, virginity pledgers are five times more likely to have oral or anal sex in the belief that such activities do not violate their pledges.

Ultimately, more data is needed in order to determine what, if any, positive effect abstinence-only programs have had. Unfortunately, many abstinence-only proponents are opposed to the kinds of surveys researchers rely on to gather such data because they include specific questions about sex. “Questions plant ideas,” warned Peter Brandt of the conservative Christian group Focus on the Family. "Individuals involved with condom programs shouldn't have a role in evaluating abstinence programs," he argues. "And who cares what those people think, anyway?"

Interestingly, California (one of three states that refuse to accept federal sex-education funds and opt instead to provide a more comprehensive sex education) saw its teen pregnancy rate drop 40 percent between 1992 and 2000, well ahead of the national average during that period of 24 percent. And the Netherlands, which has long had a comprehensive sex education curricula has one of the lowest teen pregnancy rates in the world — just 8.1 per 1000 for girls ages 15-19.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,211341,00.html

It seems to me that the "morally ambivalent position" is the one that encourages MCPS to provide programs with such proven problems.

I'm heartened MCPS avoids using programs that are known to result in 5 times as many teens engaging in oral and anal sex to maintain "virginity" combined with a tendency to not use condoms. MCPS teens will have a much better education than that with this Pediatrician guided revised curriculum.

October 24, 2007 7:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Yes, that "agenda" is to encourage abstinence. That "agenda" is also to protect all teens from unplanned pregnancy and STDs, even those who are sexually active."

These two objectives often come into conflict. The agenda is revealed by how the curriculum handles this conflict. MCPS errs on the side of protecting promiscuity.

"I see you only complained about the GI source. Here's more information from Fox News, a source you apparently trust:"

I don't why you say that is apparent. The discussion was about Guttmacher's research which is constantly referred to by TTF as some kind of independent research facility. No one has implied that FOX is a research facility. Guttmacher is actually a group whose mission is to promote comprehensive sex ed. It conducts these studies to promote that mission. If findings came up that didn't support that mission, they wouldn't publicize them. Your citing this source as an independent source is another in a series of attempts to deceive.

"It seems to me that the "morally ambivalent position" is the one that encourages MCPS to provide programs with such proven problems."

Like what?

"I'm heartened MCPS avoids using programs that are known to result in 5 times as many teens engaging in oral and anal sex to maintain "virginity" combined with a tendency to not use condoms. MCPS teens will have a much better education than that with this Pediatrician guided revised curriculum."

One thing that TTF nicely avoids mentioning in their sensationalism of the oral and anal sex discussion is that if this finding is replicated by independent research, it would show that kids are listening to the messages in the ab-only classes and trying to modify their behavior. Modifying by engaging in non-vaginal sex would be an unexpected result but it still would show that kids are listening to the ab-only message. The programs would then need only be adjusted to make clear that oral and anal sex have the same implications as vaginal sex. Reacting to this news by simply teaching kids how to reduce the risk from engaging in oral and anal sex will backfire. Instead teach them not to do it until married.

October 24, 2007 2:28 PM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

MCPS errs on the side of protecting promiscuity.

Some people just can't stop themselves from lying. Go read the curriculum show us the part where it is "protecting promiscuity."

Your citing this source [the Guttmacher Institute] as an independent source is another in a series of attempts to deceive.

Poor baby, you don't like the Guttmacher Institute?. Well, guess what? The Guttmacher Institute is good enough to be cited by the US CDC when comparing US and European teen pregnancy rates:

Despite the continuous declines, the U.S. teenage pregnancy rate is still among the highest among industrialized nations (3).

3. The Guttmacher Institute. Teenagers’ sexual and reproductive health. Facts in Brief. New York: The Alan Guttmacher Institute. 2002. Available from: http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_teens.pdf


http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/pubs/pubd/hestats/teenpreg1990-2002/teenpreg1990-2002.htm

I prefer the CDC's advice to yours so I'm going to stick with GI's findings on the number of pregnant teens in various countries. Your spinning doesn't impress me.

No one has implied that FOX is a research facility.

Thanks for noticing that I didn't imply that either. The Fox News piece I quoted was a news report about a peer reviewed study of federal data collected from thousands of teenagers. It didn't include only self-report data but actual STD test results as well. Further, it was conducted by a professor at Yale and another at Harvard and then peer reviewed before publication. It found numerous problems for kids who receive only the abstinence-only message.

"It seems to me that the "morally ambivalent position" is the one that encourages MCPS to provide programs with such proven problems."

Like what?


Like this:

"virginity pledgers are five times more likely to have oral or anal sex"

and

"[virginity pledgers] tended not to use contraceptives once they did become sexually active"

I have corrected this for you:

One thing that TTF nicely avoids mentioning in their sensationalism of the oral and anal sex discussion is that if this finding is replicated by independent research, it would show that the current crop of medically inaccurate abstinence programs leads kids to shun condoms, which are strongly recommended by the CDC and NIH to prevent HIV. As a result, the US has a much higher teen pregnancy rate than other industrialized nations, right on par with Belarus, Bulgaria, Romania, and the Russian Federation, as well as very high STD rates for teens.

October 24, 2007 5:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your blah blah blather changes nothing.

The Guttmacher Institute conducts research with a mission in mind. They aren't objective.

The worse that the study showing higher oral and anal sexual activity among virginity pledgers shows is that the students tried to adjust their behavior but were confused. The confusion can be cleared up easily without abandoning the abstinence only message. You don't want this because you believe our society should be neutral to promiscuity. Significantly, in ab only programs onset of promiscuity is delayed and incidence of STDs is no worse than participants in comp sex ed programs. Clearing the oral-anal confusion up will reduce the STD rate among pledgers. Obviously, even this subjective study with its partisan intent shows that ab only has the greater promise in reducing teen pregnancy and STD rates.

October 24, 2007 6:29 PM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

Anon's confusion over subjective vs. objective data is telling, but the fact that the Guttmacher Institute is objective enough for the experts over at the CDC -- but not for Anon -- says it all. Who needs hard objective data like STD test results from large nationwide samples when you've got "spiritually inspired glazed eyeballs?"

October 25, 2007 7:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Andrea- not anon
Huckabee- the next president?? even the guy who writes that right-leaning comic strip is making fun of him. Gee, N. Anon- I was so sure you would be a Ron Pauler.

As to peer review- I only meant real scientists- not the sort who self publish or work only with Grove City, Liberty and Regent.

October 25, 2007 7:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"As to peer review- I only meant real scientists- not the sort who self publish or work only with Grove City, Liberty and Regent."

Andreary:

What peer review does is get the opinion of a handful of scientists, personally selected by the editor of a scientific journal, about whether the evidence described in a paper would logically lead to the conclusion its author makes. Of course, if the study is described at book length, with data and methodology included, anyone, including any scientist, can perform the same process.

On the other hand, why should some small group, which may well have been selected by a subjective editor, have their opinion receive such clout? And even if their opinion is correct as to the design of the tests, how can anyone be certain the data, on such a controversial issue, has not been falsified?

Considering that so many findings in the sexual study area have been unreplicable, would anyone be surprised to find that just these situations have occurred?

Obviously, something funny's going on here.

October 25, 2007 8:01 PM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

The place where something funny is going on is NARTH. It claims to be a secular, scientific organization yet it often cites articles published in pay-to-publish journals.

What you get when an author pays to publish to avoid peer review is only the author's opinion; you do not get the benefit of feedback from experts in the field. That's probably why most of NARTH's researchers like Jones & Yarhouse choose not to publish in peer reviewed journals. For example, Paul Cameron, who was was expelled
from the American Psychological Association in 1983 after falsifying data
about gays, regularly publishes in Psychological Reports (PR), a pay-per-page to publish journal, and is still cited at NARTH.com. If you pay, PR will publish your paper with no questions asked. Unsurprisingly NARTH lies about PR and claims it is a "peer-reviewed professional journal."

October 26, 2007 8:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Beatrice

PR claims they have their papers reviewed. Here's something from their website directed at potential contributors. They also name their reviewers and have an application form for anyone who would like to be considered to become one of their contributors.

"We work hard to balance critical editing, specific constructive suggestions for changes, and to make the approach interdisciplinary. Many special reviewers and Associate Editors aid us in this collaborative effort"

What evidence do you have that this isn't so?

October 26, 2007 11:48 AM  
Blogger JimK said...

Regarding Psychological Reports, you may find THIS discussion interesting; this professor is very circumspect about attacking PR, but the conveys the problem accurately.

JimK

October 26, 2007 12:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks, Jim. Interesting article.

Bea is wrong though and NARTH is right. PR papers are peer reviewed. Granted, they charge the author to provide a public outlet for their study and they have a lower rejection rate than most journals but that does not mean they are not reviewed. The lack of citing in other journals could simply be due to the current fashion in the scientific community where few want to be associated with a politically incorrect study.

October 26, 2007 1:01 PM  
Blogger JimK said...

Look, I'm a psychologist, I've published in APA journals, and what PR does is not what everybody else calls peer review. PR is known as a pay-to-publish journal with low-to-nonexistent editorial standards. That's why its index is so low. A researcher with a publishable study would submit it to a real peer-reviewed journal, and no one writing a legitimate paper would ever cite a PR article. It's that simple. I learned this my first year in graduate school, from my much-published professor, who explained it in just this way.

JimK

October 26, 2007 1:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"what PR does is not what everybody else calls peer review"

How is it different?

October 26, 2007 1:43 PM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

What evidence do you have that this isn't so?

The evidence that PR is a pay-per-page to publish journal was provided in my comment above.

Had you clicked on that link, you'd have read that Psychological Review states:

Publication Arrangements

Publication is in order of receipt of proof from the authors. There are three publication arrangements.

(1) Regular articles. These are articles which require from 3 through 20 printed pages. Charges are $27.50 per page in multiples of four pages, plus special fees for composition (e.g., tables, figures). Authors receive 50 preprints; additional reprints and covers can be ordered.

(2) One- or two-page articles and notes. This arrangement is useful where the author does not intend to do further work in the area but feels that preliminary findings should be put on record, where it is expected that it will be several years before the final study is completed and reported, or where a particular finding can be reported completely in one page. The author submits a one-page summary of a study accompanied by the full report for filing with the Archive for Psychological Data. Charge is $27.50. Authors receive 50 preprints; additional preprints and covers can be ordered.

(3) Monograph supplements. Certain papers printing to more than 20 pages are published as monograph supplements. These are distributed to subscribers of Perceptual and Motor Skills or Psychological Reports as parts of regular issues and are also made available as separates. Charges are $27.50 per page in multiples of four pages, plus special fees for composition (e.g., tables, figures). Authors receive 50 preprints of the monographs with covers; additional preprints can be ordered.

Articles should be prepared carefully, following the form suggested for publications of the American Psychological Association. Proof is mailed to the author within approximately three weeks of acceptance of the article, and preprints are mailed within approximately five weeks of receipt of proof from the author.

It is the policy of this journal to file raw data with the Archive for Psychological Data whenever possible. Authors should submit appropriate tables with their articles. The data will be available to other researchers upon request.


That's $27.50 per page for all they publish. Compare that to the Journal of the American Medical Association:

Published since 1883, JAMA offers unparalleled reach and an author-friendly approach from manuscript submission through publication. JAMA offers you:

Prompt Decisions, Rapid Publication Timelines

81 days (median time) from submission to acceptance (including review and revision) for all manuscripts
37 days (median time) from acceptance to publication
9 days (median time) from submission to rejection
40% of all manuscripts sent for external peer review
Highly selective, 8% acceptance rate of nearly 6000 annual submissions
JAMA-EXPRESS: Opportunity for peer review, revision, and online publication in 4 weeks and print publication in 6 weeks or less for select major randomized controlled trials or reports with urgent public health importance


http://jama.ama-assn.org/misc/whypublish.dtl

And here's a term you won't find discussed over at PR:

Conflicts of Interest

Update on JAMA's Conflict of Interest Policy. JAMA. 2006;296;220-221.
Describes new requirement for authors to include potential conflicts of interest in the acknowledgment section of submitted manuscripts.
Reporting Conflicts of Interest, Financial Aspects of Research, and Role of Sponsors in Funded Studies. JAMA. 2005;294:110-111.
Defines requirements for reporting financial conflicts of interest, contributions, and role of the funding organization(s); access to data; requirements for independent statistical analysis for industry-funded research; and reporting clinical trials.
Reporting Financial Conflicts of Interest and Relationships Between Investigators and Research Sponsors. JAMA. 2001;286:89-91.
Defines conflicts of interest, and provides JAMA policies on reporting financial conflicts of interest and relationships between investigators and research sponsors, and policies on financial disclosures by JAMA Editors, Editorial Board members, and peer reviewers.
Sponsorship, Authorship, and Accountability. JAMA. 2001;286:1232-1234.
Describes policies on sponsorship, authorship, and accountability from the International Committee of Medical Journal Editors.
See also Editorial Policies for Authors in Instructions for Authors.


http://jama.ama-assn.org/misc/editpolicy.dtl

PR is almost as bad as Intervarsity Press (IP), the publisher of the Jones and Yarmouth piece, which we already discussed here. IP is a division of Intervarsity Christian Fellowship/USA and is much better known for publishing good theology than good science. Jim's right. PR is much better known as a pay-to-publish journal with low-to-nonexistent editorial standards than as a rigorous scientific journal.

October 26, 2007 4:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon-B

Thanks for filling up the the blog with a bunch of verbage about a topic already established. We already established that the authors contribute to PR's costs. The different economic model doesn't invsalidate the findings. Posting a long section describing their procedures doesn't really add anything.

JAMA is a great scientific journal. The conflicts of interest are required to be reported. So what? There is no way to make sure that the author has, in fact, reported all conflicts of interest.

Anyway, the editors of JAMA, could still potentially game the system in their selection of reviewers.

We weren't really talking about JAMA, however. We were talking about the publications that print these sexual studies which are peer reviewed and later turn out not to be replicable. Why are those journals any different than PR. Indeed, thousands of journals and editors exist. If Congress makes a blanket rule about "peer review", it's pretty much meaningless. All journals do some form of "peer review".

You might look back at history. Virtually all great scientific discoveries were initially resisted the scientific establishment. View would have passed peer review in the most read scientific publications of their time.

October 27, 2007 9:42 AM  

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